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By ColonelZen, Section IP-wars.net Site Issues
This "article" is just excerpts from the discussion about incorporating IPW which occurred in SS IPW Takes a Hit as a means of protecting it to some extent from future attempts at intimidation.
The unanswered question is whether Jeff C would want to turn over this site to such a corporation, but I think the discussion would be worthwhile for him to hear if he has not made up his mind, and of wider interest for any future projects any of us may have in mind.
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Re: Soft Target? (4.55 / 9) (#28)
by mikey on Sat Sep 10th, 2005 at 23:03:02 EST Jeff is a private individual with limited resources who is responsible for a family.... ... If we really want to do it right, we should form something like a non-profit so that the personal assets of whoever happens to host it are not at risk. Either that or it should be set up in a distributed fashion so that risks are spread so far nobody could afford an attempt to take it down like Merkey has. ---------------------
Re: Soft Target? (4.00 / 10) (#30) .... On the subject of your non-profit (presumably corporation) I don't see how that helps. Whoever's suing sues the people behind the corporation. Remember, the problem here isn't fear of the opponent winning, it's having to fight the case. Having a corporation in the way just gives you extra issues to argue in court. It won't stop you getting sued. ---------------------
Re: Soft Target? (4.28 / 7) (#34) .... Creating (a 501 3c?) puts the assets of the non-profit at risk, not the individuals who happen to host the site. Of course nothing is perfect, a corporate veil can be pierced etc... I am no expert, but I am almost certain that a non-profit would be in a much better position. Insurance could be purchased to help defray legal costs, donations or membership dues could be written off for tax purposes, etc... The only thing I am not sure about is how it would effect what kind of speech could be allowed, i.e. non-profits cannot lobby etc... Again, I am not very knowledgable, but I know that there has to be a better way. The personal assets of whoever hosts it should not be at risk. -----------------------
Re: Soft Target? (4.16 / 6) (#43) Actually I'm rather amused and bemused by the thought of having not only the worlds first totally ccl, thus truly open website, but ... Maybe we should do the worlds first truly open corporation. All of our notes BOD discussions motions and votes on the corporate website. The website not just being for reporting of the corporate business but actually being the locale where the decisions, discussions and votes actually happen. If, as you pointed out, there's a problem here it is that all the liability, but also all the responsibility for the decision process lies with Jeff. I really, really like the idea of the experiment above. Capitalizing the corporation, now proposed as a standard LLC (Delaware?) is the first problem - I've said I'm in for a K (at least) if we can get 10k of committments. Others? Of course before going further, JeffC, if we reach an agreement to do this, would you be willing to transfer IPW to such a corporation? ----------------
Re: Soft Target? (4.50 / 6) (#51) ... ... as I see it the first order of business is to provide some legal structure with some legal protection for running IPW (again presuming JC would be willing to transfer it. We can discuss in abstract doing this for another site, but I'm not sure it's worth it. I am personally invested, by my articles and work , in IPW). As I see it the purposes would read something like (legal eagles need to tighten): 1) To operate and maintain a membership web site or sites for publishing articles and encouraging authorship and publication of articles concerning intellectual property conflicts and concerns, matters peripherally related to intellectual property and such other material as may be of interest to the membership. 2) To use the resources of the corporation to protect the right and privilege of publication and discussion by the membership. 3) To solicit membership and encourage contributions by and for the web site(s) above, and to establish, publish and enforce the rights, privileges and obligations of the membership as per above. 4) To solicit, accept, and disperse funds by donation, contribution or obtained through commerce or corporate finance in execution of other purposes. 5) To do any lawful action ... deemed necessary or desirable by the directors or officers of the corporation persuant to the above purposes. ----------------------
Re: Soft Target? (4.00 / 5) (#54)
someone,cant recall who ,said something about 501c? which i thought limited political type postings? -----------------------
Re: Soft Target? (3.75 / 4) (#55)
which i thought limited political type postings? Which is a very valid concern, we would not want to limit ourselves... ------------------------
Re: Soft Target? (3.66 / 3) (#78)
someone,cant recall who ,said something about 501c? which i thought limited political type postings? Would it? Or would it just stop IPW inc. from taking a political stance? Wouldn't individuals still be able to express their own views, provided that IPW didn't discriminate (for example, by censoring one particular political view)? I don't know. I'm just asking. -------------------------
Re: Soft Target? (4.00 / 6) (#48) Unfortunately, my means are not as robust. I could not go in for $1000 but for a few hundred at most. I want more details before I put up any money, but I too think it is an interesting experiment. Can it be set up as a non-profit since the point is not to make profit--and since I'd rather like to keep advertisements off. (And if we ever do have ads, I think we should only accept them with the understanding that we can make fun of them.) --------------------------
Re: Soft Target? (4.25 / 4) (#63) br3n mentioned that being a non-profit prohibits political speech. She is correct, so I withdraw that suggestion. I do think that one thing we want to figure out is how to structure it so that it is resistant to damage. Obviously, I like the general manner that Jeff Causey has administered the site--a light hand and complete openess, even to explaining comments that have been disappeared. However, I'm thinking more how do we make sure that someone with mega-bucks can't buy it out? One way that comes to mind is the Green Bay Packard method. They are one of the few teams that hasn't moved or threatened to move out of their city in order to extort more dole out of the taxpayers. They way they have been able to do that is because there is no majority ownership--and the ownership is spread amongst a large number of ardent fans who aren't in it for the money. Thus, I think that we should look for something along those lines: 1. Make sure that it takes a large number of shareholders to create a majority. 2. Make sure that the bulk of those shareholders are the same kind of idiots we are--extreme libertarians when it comes to free speech and much more concerned with principal than with money. I'd also suggest that Jeff Causey should not need to purchase shares. ----------------------------
Re: Soft Target? (3.83 / 6) (#45) Col Zen, I think you are on the right lines, but the phrase 'putting your money where your mouth is' comes to mind. At $1000 on a $10000 corporation, you place yourself as big enough money to be identified as a mouth to be silenced. I think that this is far better as many small equal holdings, of value 100 or £50 or $100. Of course anyone can put in more, but it is a gift and confers no more ownership, and ideally, ownership should become diluted over time. As for location, it strikes me that the USA is the most full of IP BS, and hence the worst location. Thinking of the date, and what the protagonist has done over the last 4 years, I am inspired to think it requires some form of limited liability setup in several jurisdictions, with minimal shared ownership, but with maximum coherence of action
RFC: Incorporating IPW | 119 comments (109 topical, 10 editorial, 1 hidden)
RFC: Incorporating IPW | 119 comments (109 topical, 10 editorial, 1 hidden)
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